Michael D.Heath-Caldwell M.Arch.

1833

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James Heath R.A. - aged 75/76                          

George Heath Serjeant-at-Law  - aged 53/54                 
Anne Raymond Heath (ne Dunbar) - aged 45/46     

Julia Anna Harrison (ne Heath) - aged 25/26        
John Moore Heath - aged 24/25              
Douglas Denon Heath - aged 21/22           
Dunbar Isidore Heath - age 17/18               
Leopold G. Heath R.N. - age 15/16            
Emma Jane Heath (later Whatman ) - aged 11/12   

    

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Saturday 8 June 1833
Warwick and Warwickshire Advertiser

Warwick Election Petitions. (Petition against the return of Sir C. Greville)
House of Commons - Saturday, May 11, 1833. Sir Ronald C. Ferguson in the Chair.
William Gibbins was again called in, and having been sworn was cross-examined by Mr.Rogers, as follow:- - - - -
Re-examined by Mr.Sergeant Heath.

Did you never see Joseph Trepess but upon these two occasions in your life? No, I saw him often.
After the election, did you see him about your money? Yes - often.

The first time you saw him upon the business of the election was at the Navigation Inn, the second day of the polling? Yes.

When you met him at the Navigation Inn, where did you go to? To the Black Horse.

From the Navigation Inn? Yes.

Who went with you to the Black Horse? Joseph Trepess and Thomas Webb.

There you had some drink again? Yes.

Did you go to the poll that day? Yes.

How soon after did you see Joseph Trepess, about your money, after the polling? In about half an hour.

How soon did you apply to him for your money? As soon as I came back from polling.

Where? At the Black Horse.

Did you apply to him afterwards for it? I did not see him for six weeks afterwards.

Did you see him? Yes.

Where was he then? I went up to his house.

What did you go for? I went for my money.

DId you see him and speak to him about it? Yes.

What did he tell you to do? To meet him at the Black Horse in a quarter of an hour.
Did you do so? Yes.

Where was it you saw William Trepess? At his town house.

How come you to go there? His brother recommended me to go there.

Where was Joseph when he recommended you to go to his brother? In the street.

How you seen Joseph Trepess since the election several times about your money? Yes - Joseph Trepess and William too.

You saw Joseph Trepess at the Navigation Inn before the day of the election, and at the Black Horse? Yes.

After that you saw him frequently? Yes.

You are a boatman? Yes.

Were you away with your boat during the six weeks? Yes.

Where were you? In Staffordshire, and then down at Northampton.

Committee - Who did you see at the Navigation Inn the second polling day? Joseph Trepess

Who else? Thomas Webb.

Who else? No one else, not along with me.

You stated you did yesterday.

Mr.Sergeant Heath - Is the Navigation Inn the same as Mander's Inn? Yes.

Committee - Was it on one of the polling-days? Yes - on Wednesday.

Mr.Sergeant Heath - Did you see William Trepess when you went to the Navigation Inn, when Webb took you there? No, I did not at the Navigation Inn.

You stated yesterday, when you got to the Navigation Inn you saw William Trepess there, as well as Joseph  - do you know that you stated that yesterday? Not to the best of my knowledge.

Do you remember stating that? Recollect whether you did see William Trepess at the Navigation Inn - did you see William Trepess there or not? I believe I did see William Trepess, to the best of my knowledge.

What makes you think that - were there many people there? No.

The witness withdrew.

George Allen was called in, and having been sworn, was examined by Mr.Sergeant Heath as follows:-

What are you? A carpenter.

Are you a voter for Warwick? Yes.

Do you remember Mr.Oram and Mr.Betts coming to you at your house? Yes.

Do you know Mr.Shipton? I cannot say I do.

Do you not know him by sight? No.

How long was it before the polling took place that they came to your house? About a fortnight.

What did Oram say to you? He asked me --

The witness withdrew.

Mr.Rogers objected to the question, on the ground that no agency had been established against Mr.Oram, to affect Sir Charles Greville.

Mr.Sergeant Heath was heard in support of the admissibility of the evidence, and referred to the evidence of Mr.Haynes and other witnesses, proving the agency of Mr.Oram.

Mr.Rogers was heard in reply, and referred to the Herford case.

The Committee decided that the question might be put.

The witness was again called in, and further examined as follow:-

Mr.Sergeant Heath - I asked you what Mr. Oram said to you? He said he had seen my father.

Was Mr.Betts with him? Yes; he said he had seen my father-in-law, and he had told him to come down to my house.

Your father-in-law had told him to come down to your house? Yes; and he then asked me for my vote for Sir Charles.

What side were you in your wishes and views? Tomes and King.

Which side is your father-in-law? Sir Charles.

You were a Pink and Blue? Yes.

And your father-in-law an Orange? Yes.

Which side is your wife? The same as me, but rather more for the Orange.

Your father-in-law and his daughter are rather more for the Orange? Yes.

Mr.Oram came down to you, and what did he say to him? He asked me for Sir Charles's interest to vote; and I told him I could not, except they would fulfil the promise that my father had said to them.

What did they say to that? Mr.Betts and Mr.Oram said - "That is all right." 

Who said that? Mr.Betts and Mr.Oram.

Did they both say that? Yes.

What was the whole conversation? They said - "That will be right."

Did Mr.Betts say anything of what Hutchins had said to him? No; no more than that he had sent them.

Did you make any promise of your vote? I then promised him my vote upon them terms.

What were the terms that your father-in-law had promised you - Hutchins is the name of your father-in-law? Yes.

You said Mr.Oram and Mr.Betts you would vote for Sir Charles, if they would do what Hutchins had promised you? Yes.

Did they say any thing to that? No.

Did they say yes or no - what did they say, either Mr.Oram or Mr.Betts? They asked me for my vote.

What did they say when you said you would give them your vote? They then went out and thanked me.

They said that would be all right? Yes.

Were you directed to go any where? They then went out of the house, and my father-in-law came in.

Where did you go? We then went out, and we went to the Warwick Arms, and there we met with Buckley.

Who did you go to the Warwick Arms with? With Hutchins, my father-in-law, and Buckley.

Which Buckley? The old gentleman.

You met Buckley going, and went with him to the Warwick Arms? Yes.

Who did you see at the Warwick Arms? John Nix.

You did not see Mr.Oram there? No.

Where did you go to from the Warwick Arms? To the committee room.

Who took you there? Buckley

Who did you see there? Mr.Oram and Mr.Betts, and a person of the name  of Leatherland.

You saw Mr.Oram at the committee? Yes.

And Mr.Betts? Yes.

Did Mr.Oram say anything to you there? Yes.

What did he say? He asked me for my vote for Sir Charles Greville - a plumper -  and I promised him.

What did you say to that? I then came out of the room.

Did nothing else pass then? No.

What did you say when he asked you for a plumper? I told him I would upon those terms that they had promised.

What did you tell him? I told him I would, if he would fulfil that which my father-in-law had promised me.

Did he say any thing to that, or tell you to meet him any where? Mr.Betts then told me to meet him in a day or two afterwards.

Was Mr.Oram present? Yes.

Did Oram say any thing about coming again in a night or two? No.

Did you meet hm again afterwards? Yes, about three days afterwards.

Did you meet Oram? I went to Betts's house.

Did you meet Oram? No - Oram was not there.

Did you not see Oram at all that night? I went to Betts's house, and Betts took me over to the committee room.

Who did you see there? I went into the private room with Betts.

Do you know whose room it was? Mr.Trepess's  - he came in.

William Trepess? Yes.

Did anybody else come in? No.

Did you see Oram come in? Betts says - "I suppose this is your room, Trepess;" and he said - "Yes, it is, I believe." 

Did you say that, or did Mr.Betts say that? Mr.Betts.

Did you go into the room there? Yes.

Tell us what passed after Betts came in? We left that room, and went to a room up above.

Who did? Me and Betts - we went into the room that Oram was in.

What passed there? Mr.Betts then told him what money I wanted.

What did he say? £6.

Mr.Betts told Oram you wanted £6? Yes. Mr.Oram said - "I cannot give it - if I do to you, I must do others." 

What did you say to that? He then told Mr.Betts he would see I was paid. He then told Mr.Betts to go down, and he told me to follow Mr.Betts; and we went into a dark room, and he then gave me four sovereigns.

Was any thing said about £4, before that, when Mr.Oram said if he gave you £6, he must give it to others - was any thing said more than that? No.

You got four sovereigns in this dark room? Yes.

From Mr.Betts? Yes.

What did he say to you when he gave you the money? He said I must give him a note of hand, to say if I did not vote for Sir Charles I must give him the money again.

Did he say any thing about selling yourself, or any thing of that sort? He hoped I would not sell them.

Was anything said about the other two pounds? I was to go in a night or two aftewards, and take this note.

Who said that? Betts.

To whom were you to take it? To Mr.Betts and he would see about the other £2.

Did you go afterwards? No, I did not go at all.

You did not go for your £2? No.

Why did not you? Because I did not like to give the note of hand.

Did Mr.Betts ever come to you for the note? No.

You polled I believe for Tomes and King after all? Yes.

Do you remember being at the White Swan at a party? Yes.

How many nights was that before the polling? About a week.

How many people were there? It was a large company.

Was there a large party at the supper? The supper was over.

Did you see many people eating and drinking? About a score.<%2